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Exclusive interview: Gavin Grimm is moving out & moving on

Exclusive interview: Gavin Grimm is moving out & moving on
Gavin Grimm at the GLAAD Media Awards in New York City, May 2017. Photo: Shutterstock
Gavin Grimm — the transgender teenager who is fighting for the right to use the boys’ room at his high school, even though he graduated this summer — tells LGBTQ Nation he has decided it’s time to live on his own, as his own man.

Where he goes, however, is very much up in the air, including how far it will be from conservative, rural Gloucester, Virginia, where the school board refuses to concede he should have been treated like every other boy.

Related: Gavin Grimm Isn’t Giving Up

Grimm called LGBTQ Nation before making an address Thursday to the American Federation of Teachers’ biennial TEACH convention at the Marriott Wardman in Washington, D.C.

Mary Cathryn Ricker (left), Randi Weingarten (second from left) Gavin Grimm (third from left) and Loretta Johnson. American Federation of Teachers

In our wide-ranging phone interview, he talked about his love life, his music and movie favorites, as well as being thrust into the limelight as a transgender boy, now a man hunting for a new home and then headed to college. And Grimm revealed that he’s optimistic about the future for trans rights.

Grimm and I first met at the premiere of Katie Couric’s National Geographic special, Gender Revolution, and after reminiscing about his red carpet experience at the GLAAD Media Awards in New York City in May, our conversation turned to his ongoing court battle.

In less than two months, his lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union will present their case in the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, arguing that the school board policy barring him from using the boys bathroom is illegal and still discriminates against him whenever he visits the school as an alumnus.

Dawn Ennis: So, tell me where we are right now in your case.

Gavin Grimm: Right now we are getting ready for opening arguments on September the 12th.

DE: And what are you doing to help your team? Is this part of it? Or are you basically allowing them to do all the, you know, dot the I’s and cross the T’s, and things like that?

GG: Well, I’m doing things like this. For my part, that’s my role in this, to get the word out about my story before we go to court. They do the legal things. But I take on speaking engagements to help spread awareness and education about what trans youth are and what their needs are. So that’s my role in this.

Dealing with Fame and Facing the Future

DE: Are you being put in a position of being a transgender spokesperson or are you feeling that this is something that you want to be, an advocate for trans men and all trans people?

GG: Both, really. Because on one hand, I didn’t intend to step out on the activist platform. I didn’t want to be in the public eye. I didn’t want to have anything that I have now as far as the notoriety or the platform, really. But that’s what I got. And from there it was my decision to continue as I have, with the activism that I’ve done, the speaking engagements I’ve done, the interviews I’ve done. From that point on those were my decisions.

DE:  That very first time you spoke before the school board, I could just see in your face that, as confident as you were, that was a terrifying moment. Can you tell me a little bit about how you felt that day? How you decided, ‘Well I’m going to have to speak up,’ especially knowing that you were speaking as a sole voice against so many bigots.

Gavin Grimm at Time100 Awards April 2017. Shutterstock

GG: I was sure that no one was going to do it for me. You know? I figured if I didn’t, no one would. And that really was the case: pretty much everyone spoke against me at those meetings, aside from family and friends that I brought along, myself. I thought if I could appeal to the rational, maybe shoot down some of the more ridiculous arguments, that it would have landed well enough to have some critical thinking happen, right?

But I ended up speaking differently than I had initially planned, and speaking from, I think, emotions, and trying to appeal to that side of things, because I saw the room had no logic whatsoever, and said that was going to be a fruitless conversation. Appealing to emotion was something that I felt would be more effective, and of course we know what happened next.

DE: As far as what happens next in court. I imagine this is not the venue you wanted. I know that the Supreme Court turned your case aside because of the Trump administration’s decision to rescind the Obama-era guidance to schools on trans students. What was your feeling in terms of what happened with the Supreme Court?

GG: I was disappointed and frustrated, but I remain as eager as ever to continue with whatever that meant for me at that point. You know, whatever the next step was.

Gavin Grimm
Gavin Grimm Gavin Grimm/Medium

Planning For College and Moving Out

DE: How was how was your graduation? It must have been an exciting night. My oldest graduated the same time as you.

GG: Oh? Fun! It was a lot of fun. I got to see a lot of people that I care about a lot. And you know it was great to be out of there.

DE: I bet. And the ACLU told me that you were pursuing a possible path with a community college. Is that still on the radar?

GG: The situation’s changed a bit, I’m moving, which is the priority right now. But I am still definitely college-bound. I want to get an education. I want to go to college. That’s what I want to do.

DE: And when you say you’re moving, are you moving out of the district, or moving out of state?

GG: Not clear yet.

DE: OK. Are you moving your family or just yourself.

GG: Myself.

DE: Okay, wow. Mr. Independent. Good for you! I didn’t get out until I was 22 when my parents started charging me rent.

GG: There’s no shame in it.

DE: So how is Esmerelda [Grimm’s pet pig]? Happy belated birthday to Esmerelda!

GG: Thank you. I was just showing people her birthday pictures this morning.

DE: That’s awesome.

GG: She’s wonderful. I’m the one who wakes her and give her her breakfast in the morning. And I’ll tell you what, she’s so sweet in the morning, and gives me nothing more than a million kisses. She makes these sweet little sleepy noises. I love her so much.

His Favorite Band, Movie Character, & Advice to Trans Youth

DE: I read with very great interest your Tumblr Q&A, and glad to now know that you love [the band] Arcade Fire, and [Harry Potter character] Ron Weasley.

GG: Yes!

DE: I was most interested, though, in how you were trying to be a resource, or at least a connector, between closeted youth and people who will help them. What kind of activity do you recommend, if someone sees you and says, “I feel like Gavin did”? What do you recommend?

GG: It’s a difficult question, because so many kids are left without resources or without the ability to come out. And I would say one of the greatest tools is the internet. You can find a community of anything on the internet. You can find support and love and resources.

And that’s what I did for my early days of finding out who I was, and learning what I needed to do for myself for my happiness and for my transition. Even before I came out to the very first friend that I told, it was online that I found a place to be myself and to learn about myself.

And so I would say to kids, reach out online if you can, and those who are in a situation where they can or have come out, and are alone or discriminated against, to reach out to any local community resources that are around. If there are none, like there were none in my community, again online is a good way to go and try to surround yourself with supportive friends and family, if possible.

Gavin Grimm (left) and his mother Deidre at the GLAAD Media Awards May 2017. Twitter

DE:  And you know I think your mom [Deidre Grimm] is a really brave person, too. Moms of trans kids have this connection, of course, with the gender their children are assigned at birth, but then they don’t want to lose that child. So many times, I’ve heard, “I’d rather have a trans kid than a dead kid.”

GG: Right. Which is the rhetoric of a lot of people, and something my mother cited as getting her onboard. But while I appreciate the expectations that you have for children, when you bring home a baby in a blue blanket, and dress him up like a sailor and get him his first tux for prom, and maybe he’ll be a fireman. That kind of thing, having very stereotypical expectations for children, that I feel very rarely pan out that way. And so when parents grieve the loss of their [transgender] child, I appreciate that. But I think it’s sort of nonsense. What you’re grieving is the stereotypical expectations that you had. When you have kids, you probably shouldn’t have many of those, because people are going to be whatever they’re going to be.

Sex and Politics

DE: Is there someone in your life right now that you’re talking about, in terms of a relationship, or is that something that you’re looking for?

GG: I’m not in a relationship right now and because I’m leaving, it’s not something that I’m really pursuing right now either. But it’s going to be fun to be in a new place where I can meet new people, and potentially have new relationships when I’m in a place that’s not Gloucester.

DE: Now that you can vote, are you excited about being able to vote in your next election?

GG: I am! I registered even before I turned 18, actually. I went in for a replacement ID after my wallet was stolen. And they were like, “Hey, will you be 18 on the next election? So you want to register?” And I was like, “Yeah! Thank you.” Really exciting story, I know.

DE: Do you do you mind identifying how you registered?

GG: Of course I registered as a Democrat.

DE: You know there are people who are Republican and trans.

GG: Which is interesting. But you know I don’t intend to vote along party lines. You know, I don’t find that I often enjoy Republican politicians, I can’t recall ever thinking of one that I would have been comfortable electing. But if there is such a thing, I wouldn’t be deterred by the party affiliation.

DE: What are you thinking right now in terms of where this country is going in terms of its government and how it’s treating transgender people? It seems every day there’s another bill trying to regulate us out of our bathrooms and out of our rights.

GG: Yes. So I’m going to be the oddball out and I’m going to say that I see a positive future. And the reason is, because the conversation is growing, even though there are negative bills, they frequently get struck down. There are positive motions, positive lawsuits, positive bills that are also being introduced. And ultimately the social tide is changing and there’s more acceptance, there’s more awareness, more visibility than there ever was before. And that means there’s progress and that means there will still be progress, no matter what administration comes above us. We’re not a community that can be squashed or kept down. And progress is being made every day. That’s not to discount the fear and danger that is current.

Related: The 13 Transgender Murders so far in 2017.

DE: And also the violence, too, and that’s what makes me sad, of course, as this gets worse and worse every year.

GG: Yes, the violence.

Gavin’s Career Path

DE: What do you see yourself doing five years from now? Do you have a career path?

Katie Couric (left) and Gavin Grimm at the NYC Premiere of Gender Revolution February 2017. National Geographic

GG: I want to go into genetics. Five years from now, I will probably still be in school or maybe I’ll be in a practice somewhere doing something like that. Evolutionary biology and genetics is a topic of great interest to me, but I personally would like eventually to be in a practice where the study is applied. So, maybe I’d be conducting research initiatives to figure out what type of populations are most susceptible to melanoma, and the genetic basis for that. Or like, you know, matching people with custom cancer treatments by their genetics, or with medications that people are not responding to. And I’ll say, “Well, based on your genetics, here’s what might help.” That kind of thing. Applying it to help people.

DE: There was a big debate on Facebook recently that sparked a lot of conversation in the LGBTQ community, in terms of some older gay men saying they don’t like the word ‘cisgender.’ Any comment on the word and how it’s used?

GG:  You know I think it’s a descriptor like anything else, like calling someone white or black or gay or straight. If they are not trans, they are cisgender just by common usage of the word: non-transgender. So, I don’t see it as different than saying “that brown haired guy” you know? I don’t see the problem. I guess I could see the concern when you make a generalization and assume someone is transgender and it turns out to not be the case. Or vice versa. But when it’s established that an individual is not a transgender individual then I don’t see the problem with the word usage.

DE: One man said that to him, ‘cis’ sounded too much like ‘sissy,’ and called it a slur like the ‘T’ word and the ‘F’ word.

GG: Like sissy and pansy? Yeah, I don’t give a shit. That’s not what that word means.

DE: Thank you, Gavin, and our best wishes to you.

GG: Thanks!

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