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Utah defends gay marriage ban: Marriage is ‘principally a child-centered institution’

Tuesday, February 4, 2014
Rick Bowmer, APOpponents of same-sex marriage show their support during a rally at the Utah State Capitol Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2014, in Salt Lake City.

Rick Bowmer, AP
Opponents of same-sex marriage show their support during a rally at the Utah State Capitol Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2014, in Salt Lake City.

Updated: 3:00 p.m. MST

SALT LAKE CITY — Utah state attorneys filed their opening argument to the federal appeals court reviewing the state’s same-sex marriage ban, saying the optimal environment for raising children is with a mother and father.

The voluminous brief, filed late Monday ahead of a midnight deadline, is the first step in a process that will lead to an April 10 hearing before the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

The court will then decide if it agrees with a federal judge in Utah who in mid-December overturned the 2004-voter passed ban saying it violates gay and lesbian couples’ rights to due process and equal protection under the 14th Amendment. The appeals court also is reviewing a similar decision about Oklahoma’s ban, and a hearing on that case has been set for April 17.

Attorneys for three gay and lesbian couples who sued Utah have until Feb. 25 to respond.

The state contends redefining marriage poses “real, concrete ris ks to children” because not having a mother or father leads to emotional damage. The state said its duty is to look out for the long-term interests of children who can’t defend themselves. The state also believes allowing same-sex marriages would lead to reduced birth rates, which would bring demographic and economic crisis.

“The diversity of having both a mom and a dad is the ideal parenting environment,” wrote Gene Schaerr, an outside attorney who has been hired by the state to defend the law. “That model is not intended to demean other family structures, any more than giving an A to some students demeans others.”

The state made similar arguments in court papers filed before the U.S. Supreme Court in early January when it asked the justices to halt gay marriages that were occurring in Utah. The high court approved the request, granting an emergency stay while the 10th Circuit considers the case.

Attorneys representing three gay and lesbian Utah couples scoffed at the notion that gay and lesbian couples make inferior parents, saying the state provides no scientific evidence to back its claim.

Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said Tuesday the state’s brief offers no justification for harming sex-sex couples and their families. The organization is teaming with a pair of Salt Lake City attorneys to handle the case.

“It’s disappointing that the Utah officials’ brief shows no understanding of the common human needs that gay and lesbian people share with all others and how marriage strengthens all families, including families of same-sex couples and their children,” Minter told The Associated Press.

Minter added that Utah’s argument is at odds with the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling last summer that struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act. In that decision, the justices wrote that limiting marriages to a man and a woman relegates gay marriages to second-class status, and “humiliates tens of thousands of children now being raised by same-sex couples.”

More than 1,000 gay couples married in Utah before the Supreme Court granted the stay last month. Utah Gov. Gary Herbert has instructed state agencies to stop granting benefits to the couples, save for allowing them to jointly file taxes.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, meanwhile, said the federal government will recognize the marriages and grant corresponding benefits.

Utah state attorneys believe the appeals court ultimately will decide the validity of the marriages, but gay rights attorneys think the marriages should remain valid no matter what the court decides.

Utah’s gay marriage ban was passed by 66 percent of voters in 2004. In the brief, the state says U.S. District Judge Robert J. Shelby did not give “proper deference to the choice of Utah’s citizens” when he struck down the ban in a surprise Dec. 20 ruling.

State attorneys argue it is within Utah’s right to define marriage as it chooses. They also contend that Shelby erred in concluding the 14th Amendment requires states to issue marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples.

But the core of the state’s 120-page argument focuses on the belief that gays and lesbians simply aren’t suitable parents.

“Maintaining the man-woman definition helps prevent further erosion of the traditional concept of marriage as being principally a child-centered institution,” state attorneys wrote, “one focused first and foremost on the welfare of children rather than the emotional interests of adults.”

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309 more reader comments:

  1. Then old people and infertile couples should not be allowed to marry. Js.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:39pm
  2. That proposal was actually made by some conservative activist when he tried to bring in a similar law. He proposed annulment of any such marriages that actually existed. I suspect he did not get approval, but the difficulty with viewing these people as 'stupid' is that they are well aware of the rhetorical arguments being made and are trying to undercut them in their own vile way.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:51pm
  3. So old people and infertile couples and couples not planning on having children should be barred from marriage as well.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:39pm
  4. And if I remember correctly, the judge already made that same exact point in the Utah ruling!

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  5. Ah yes, here we go. "Nevertheless, the State maintains that same-sex couples are distinct from opposite-sex couples because they are not able to naturally reproduce with each other. The State points to Supreme Court cases that have linked the importance of marriage to its relationship to procreation... The court does not find the State’s argument compelling because, however persuasive the ability to procreate might be in the context of a particular religious perspective, it is not a defining characteristic of conjugal relationships from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State’s position demeans the dignity not just of same-sex couples, but of the many opposite-sex couples who are unable to reproduce or who choose not to have children. Under the State’s reasoning, a post-menopausal woman or infertile man does not have a fundamental right to marry because she or he does not have the capacity to procreate. This proposition is irreconcilable with the right to liberty that the Constitution guarantees to all citizens." —Judge Shelby, federal court decision in Kitchen v. Herbert, page 26 http://fr.scribd.com/doc/192796334/Federal-Court-Decision-in-Kitchen-v-Herbert

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:54pm
  6. Good for the judge! I said the same thing to a Mormon I knew that was making comments about gay couples; he said it was against god because they can't have kids together.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:57pm
  7. Exactly what I was going to point out.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:26pm
  8. Having kids is not an etched-in-stone requirement for marriage. And I guess it really just blows my mind that these people still want to cling to the foolish and absolutely hilarious notion that straight couples are somehow going to stop having and raising kids of their own if gay couples are allowed to marry. They may not have actually said this in so many words, but it is at the core of their stupid excuse for an argument in this matter. And they don't even seem to possess the ability or willingness to acknowledge it.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:34pm
  9. You beat me to it Theresa...

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:46pm
  10. And gay couples make fine parents.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:55pm
  11. Not only that, but the State should REQUIRE every marriage produces a child—or their marriage is annulled.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:42pm
  12. Give it up, it’s just going to happen one way or another. The revolution is on…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:40pm
  13. Not prooven in the California Prop. 8 case. Next lie, please.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:40pm
  14. Yeah, this is a tired argument and a very weak one at that. What else ya got Utah?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:40pm
  15. are we ever gonna win this fully? It seems so hopeless when i see things like this.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:40pm
  16. This could double as a picture for anti-divorce

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:41pm
  17. Agree with the other commenters – in fact, childless couples should be made to divorce since they didn’t perform their marital duty by producing children.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:41pm
  18. Give it up fanatics……

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:41pm
  19. Then they are getting ‘married’ for the wrong reason and shouldn’t be allowed…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:41pm
  20. HUMAN MARRIAGE!!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:41pm
  21. If that’s how Utah breeders feel about it – then ban heterosexual divorce first – just to prove they are not all talk…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:41pm
  22. If it is ‘principally a child-centered institution’ what are they saying to those children who are not straight? This is like Russia’s propaganda law…it’s for the children….no it’s to protect your narrow view of what the world should be instead of what it is. By proclaiming your purity you taint that message with hate and intolerance to the very children you proclaim to protect.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:42pm
  23. Plenty of gay people are parents…great ones….what’s your point?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:42pm
  24. And many heterosexual couples are terrible parents. The Utah defenders of these hate-laws are living in a fantasy world were people never abuse their children, never get divorced, never get drunk, never get violent, and never go no prison. Statistically, gay couples are probably more likely to stay married longer, and with fewer "domestic disturbances" than heterosexual couples.

    Replied on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:16am
  25. So much for the adoption option. Start building more orphanages. What a bunch of hypocrites. This is why religion is evil and stupid.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:42pm
  26. I disagree. Religion itself is neither evil or stupid. It's the hard core 'elitist' followers that are 'evil and stupid'.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:23pm
  27. Naw, just Christianity mostly.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:15pm
  28. No one is born with a religion, it is indoctrinated into us....I stand for the idea that religion does not trump my Constitutional Rights in this country.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:31pm
  29. There's no such thing as religious birthright and that's what the so-called religious elitists would so desperately like to think.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:31pm
  30. Religion is not evil and stupid - some "religious" people are evil and stupid.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:35pm
  31. I guess the incredibly high divorce rate for straight couples wasn’t even considered.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:42pm
  32. Woah.. These people are ugly… Inside and out

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:43pm
  33. *facepalm* The stupid. (and ridiculous). It hurts. Guess they should start banning any marriage over child-bearing age, then. And start forcing divorces on childless marriages.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:43pm
  34. Don't forget terminating all marriages once the youngest children have turned 18 or 21. After all, we don't want these old people having children who won't graduate from high school before they die.

    Replied on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:21am
  35. is it weird that they’re all old-farts?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:43pm
  36. then infertile people must not be allowed to marry, nor can people older than 50 especially women who have reached menopause. Marriage is about love and the legal obligations and benefits of government recognition of that love. nothing more and nothing less. Oh and btw gay married couples can adopt and have done so successfully for decades in Massachusetts, even before marriage equality started 10 years ago. Gay couples were allowed to adopt as long as they were in a stable relationship.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:44pm
  37. It’s a great debate point…..for failure. LOL

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:44pm
  38. 90% of those people are 45 and older. The new generation doesn’t care lol. We love who we love. And those who say gay couples raise gay child has never met my five year old who has great taste in cute boys.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:44pm
  39. There are gay couples in their 80's- been together longer than many straight couples lol

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:59pm
  40. INCORRECT!! Marriage is NOT a christian based institution. It has been an ever evolving union and ceremony from the dawn of mankind and it IS NOT for the purpose of procreation. If marriage were to stop evolving….THAT would be the redefinition.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:44pm
  41. Good. Their basis for the state being involved in marriage is a fallacious lie. That lie will be shredded in court.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:45pm
  42. I won’t even SAY here what I really think of marriage in general, for fear of starting a serious fight, but, seriously, I can’t understand WHY a male and female parent are so freaking important to child development. And what about the huge multitude of totally dysfunctional “straight” families? Gimme a break!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:45pm
  43. i'll say it for you...it has become an utter joke, and heterosexuals have long driven it into the ground. i think gay couples will ultimately strengthen marriage even though not all relationships will work out.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:55pm
  44. very well said anna and weston

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:33pm
  45. Ha,ha I hope they spew this crap line to the Supreme Court.They will be laughed all the way back to the grand salt lake.This illustrates the difficulty of defending that law that is unjust and no amount of dogma can salvage it.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:45pm
  46. Well, it has to be centered on something other than love, bc these folks are apparently incapable of love. Plus they are assholes. So the argument from their views makes sense…who would want to marry a person like that?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:45pm
  47. SO you’re going to deny marriage to those who may not want to REPRODUCE??TELL ME – How are you going to enforce THAT you &)^&^)^^%(%6 ASSHOLES????????????

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:45pm
  48. So as long as they agree to adopt or use donors they’re fine?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:46pm
  49. You ever notice that children and/or the expectation of are NEVER mentioned in wedding vows? How many newly wedded couples will claim that they got married for the purpose of having children? None. No one needs to get married to have children. We’ve watched them long enough to know that.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:46pm
  50. That statement is abusive to a great % of the heterosexuals over there too… Marriage is about love!!!! And equality is about humanity! Deal with it and stop the hate, God damn it!!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:46pm
  51. Because we all know, that banning gay marriage causes school districts to rip the food out of children’s mouths during lunchtime.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:46pm
  52. And this coming from a state where men “need” more than 1 wife? What a joke!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:47pm
  53. So if two Utahns go to Vegas and decide to get married by Elvis on a drunken whim, that marriage is recognized by the State of Utah because the State wants them to bring a child into it?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:47pm
  54. Ignorance. Pure and simple…it’s ugly

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:47pm
  55. So I’m assuming then that straight couples who are “allowed” in this wonderful ‘institution’ sign some binding documents to promise to have children?….seems only fair if its merely child-centred!! What rubbish!!! Ignorance, hatred, dusk-standard STUPIDITY!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:48pm
  56. I guess they are in the streets demanding all single parents give up their babies to married couples, and that divorce be utterly illegal… so that marriage will mean a mother and father for every child.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:48pm
  57. yes, because Utah only believes in one man, one woman, another woman, one more woman, oh….and one more woman. And possibly one more woman. pfffffft.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:48pm
  58. Yeah check out the dyke in the front. Hahaaa!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:48pm
  59. so much for elderly and those that can’t have children, eh?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:48pm
  60. (some) people are so stupid.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  61. No! It’s! Not! People marry because they love each other and want to spend their lives together. Some couples never have children a) because they don’t want them or b) because they don’t have them. Having a childless marriage does not make it any less of a marriage! Get over yourselves!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  62. But it’s okay for old perverts to have several wives, each younger than the one before, and slave to the rest!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  63. and single parents should have their children taken from them?! BS!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  64. Not every child needs a mother AND a father. A child needs love. Period. And a requirement of marriage should not be to have kids. Not everyone wants kids. Utah should be disowned by the country. Ignorant asses

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  65. This year will mark 25 years of marriage for my husband and I, childless by choice. Marriage is a love-centered institution, not a child-centered one.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  66. This argument is infinitely STUPID and IRRELEVANT.
    Is that the best they have?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:49pm
  67. Morons!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:50pm
  68. I guess nobody in Utah over the age of 48 can get married then by that logic. SO STUPID!!! Even the SCOTUS has shot down this lame argument.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:51pm
  69. And any men who are still capable of fathering children should be divorced and obliged to marry a woman capable of having children. In fact, they should just have their pick with no right of refusal on the part of such women. I’m sure the ‘real rape’ creeps would get behind that…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:53pm
  70. There is no definition on Marriage anymore. Every excuse it invalid.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:53pm
  71. Morons

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:55pm
  72. Force single mothers to marry then. I bet they did not think of that then. It’s about homophobia again. It’s just another excuse

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:55pm
  73. We absolutely MUST make more babies! Heck, there are only 7.4 billion people on the planet. So what if 1.8 billion don’t eat enough to survive!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:55pm
  74. closed minded people who are NOT willing to be open minded people are IDIOTS!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:55pm
  75. The posters means, that all straight parents who decite to divorce has to give up theyre childs? Because as the posters says, a child needs a father AND mother… hmm. Poor People. Soooo silly.
    Hope they will woke up one day….

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:56pm
  76. so do they have state paid fertility therapy for infertile couples? i mean marriage is about having kids.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:57pm
  77. I’ve never been married but I’m marrying my girlfriend when we turn 50. We are both the same age so it will be a great 50th birthday and celebration for both of us. Oh yeah, then we’re coming to Utah for our honeymoon to mountain bike and hike. Then we’re going dancing at that big awesome gay bar you have in Salt Lake City. We don’t have kids because we never wanted any.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:57pm
  78. Hypocrisy reigns supreme!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:57pm
  79. Then people who don’t want children shouldn’t be allowed to marry?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:58pm
  80. Closed minded…they suck!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:59pm
  81. So no marriage after 50! Liberation DAY!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:59pm
  82. Feel so sorry for those married couples who can’t have children, how substandard must they feel maybe they shouldn’t have been allowed to marry either??

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 3:59pm
  83. What a bunch of morons…my husband and I have been married for 18 years with no intention of ever having kids.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:00pm
  84. I look at it this way there’s more gay bisexual and closet cases out there that are married trust me I know I will be honest I use to escort and most of my clientele were straight married men on business trips yeah I said it

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:00pm
  85. doesn't surprise me at all. those self-identified straight guys also take to places like craigslist for gay sex. sexuality is super fluid.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:58pm
  86. never mind that liberty and justice for all thing, huh ?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:01pm
  87. They’re all so blinded by their ignorance and bigotry that they can’t see that marriage is about two people who love each other so much that they want to spend their whole lives together

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:01pm
  88. MANY of my gay friends have children-often adopted children that straight people didn’t want. And many of my straight married friends do not have children. These people are too much.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:01pm
  89. infterile people?… omg yall

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:01pm
  90. Utah is fighting a losing battle. Period.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:02pm
  91. the thing that gets me is you always hear them say kids can not be raised with out a mom and dad, I know a lot of kids that turned out just fine with only a mom or in some cases just a dad, i know kids who have been raised by 2 men or 2 women, and the kids turned out just fine, I know kids that have been raised by a mom and a dad, and some have tuned out just fine, BUT… I know some raised by a mother and father EX: the child spent most of his time suspended from school, expelled from school by the time he was in the 9th grade, spent a lot of time in Juvenile detention centers, and since he has been 18 he has been in jail 4 times already and he is only 20 now, so he had a mom and dad and it didnt seem to help him any.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:02pm
  92. “Child-centered”? LOL! Since when is procreation required for American marriage? Since NEVER.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:02pm
  93. You can’t stop hatred but when they realize when they finally go to heaven that the Lord made us if he did not want gay people in this world he would not have made us and if you did not want haters in this world then he would not have made haters get the point and get over it

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:03pm
  94. Whatever. Get off the cross already! We need the wood!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:03pm
  95. Not a valid argument ….the court needs to just tell them that they will no longer listen to this garbage

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:03pm
  96. Who I love in this world is my opinion who needs your opinion I’m going to continue loving who I love I don’t need your opinion of what you think about it I’m going to live my life regardless of what you say and many of the billions of gay people in this world after all god loves all of us

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:05pm
  97. I agree with everyone here. What about all the thousands of kids in foster homes who need loving parents, gay or straight? Kids who are abused in horrific ways by straight people? Utah, you need to open your eyes to the true reality of how kids are being used in this country & around the world as sex slaves by Straight men.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:05pm
  98. Get a life Utah. This is Rediculous

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:07pm
  99. I want to laugh so hard one they want to use this one when there are so many divorced 1 parent home. so where is the 1 dad 1 mom theory now!! That is a joke of a case to base this fight on.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:07pm
  100. NEWSFLASH! ! GAY PEOPLE HAVE KIDS TOO!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:07pm
  101. This is a funny fight since yeah has the highest rate of gay couples raising children!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:08pm
  102. So infertile couples shouldn’t get married either?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:08pm
  103. Time is on our side. Equality will win in time.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:08pm
  104. Plus there are a lot of str8 married couples that don’t want kids, so whatchu talkin bout willis??

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:08pm
  105. lgbt <3

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:09pm
  106. These people are deluded…..for starters there is divorce, death, infertility .., then there are childless marriages (for example, my 70+ year old step-grandfather and his wife)…the list goes on…these demonstrations are about hate and fear and discrimination…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:10pm
  107. That’s biggest load of crap. Hetro marriages have been ruining children’s lives forever. What makes them think LGBT marriage is any different? Give them the chance to be just like everyone else.
    I know that’s bleak but it’s the truth.
    Relationships can change not matter what.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:11pm
  108. Feels like France… :-/

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:14pm
  109. Oh those straight people… They can’t seem to get it right!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:14pm
  110. that lame argument again?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:16pm
  111. so what gays can raise children and im celibate and want to raise my one child

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:16pm
  112. fuck outta here. we will get our rights. fuck conservative bs.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:17pm
  113. (…redefining marriage in “genderless” terms likely would result in lower reproductive rates and fewer children being raised in the ideal environment provided by biological, opposite-sex parents)

    So basically, according to this widely-debunked and discredited theory, gay people like myself are causing heterosexual couples to have fewer babies.

    Wow. That’s….amazing! I never realized I held so much power and magical influence over the lives of total strangers.

    Do any of the people who endorse this nonsense not understand just how totally asinine they’re making themselves look and sound? If Utah’s definition of legal marriage is centered squarely around children, why do they then permit opposite sex couples who may be incapable of producing children to get married? What about the couples who, for whatever reason, don’t happen to want kids? Are Utah officials simply going to turn these people away? I can just picture a clerk saying something like, “if you’re not going to have kids, we cannot issue you a license.”

    Yeah, like that’s ever going to fly.

    Stupidity like this is all these detractors have to bolster their flimsy excuse for an argument. And that’s not going to hold up in a federal court of law.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:19pm
  114. And really, is it such a bad thing for people to have fewer children? There are too many mouths to feed in the world already. Poor people routinely have more children than they can afford to support, due to carelessness, ignorance, and lack of access to inexpensive or free birth control. The human species could do with lower fertility rates, if you ask me.

    Replied on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:34pm
  115. So they want to ban marriage of the infertile?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:19pm
  116. We should be happy they came out with this lame ass defense because it shows just how weak their position is against equality. Let them go to the supreme court and make this case, let them lose. Equality will win and we can laugh all the way to the alter.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:20pm
  117. If marriage is only for conceiving children what about infertility in women and men?…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:20pm
  118. no its not……. its a love-centered institution

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:21pm
  119. So when Straight folks abandon , beat, neglect and almost kill their children, we are there to give those children stable homes. Pull that two by four from your own eye and stop fretting about our splinters.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:22pm
  120. So you are ok with one man marrying two or more women but your against gay marriage thats messed up.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:22pm
  121. That’s already been proven to be a moot point!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:23pm
  122. man fuck the “united” states.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:23pm
  123. A father and twenty mothers for all….

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:23pm
  124. How is it people do not see the indensible logical falicies of their arguments? Such as, people past the age of fertility of infertile for other reasons.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:24pm
  125. What a bunch of bs! Parenting is universal, I don’t give a fuck if you like men, women, both whatever! If you love that baby and take care of him/her/them that is all that matters! Sexual orientation is irrelevant

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:26pm
  126. The whole point of marrying someone is because you love them and want to spend your life with them, not so you can breed. Heck, how many children are born out of wedlock anyway? But of course that isn’t mentioned in this argument.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:27pm
  127. Even if it were, it still does not account for all. If the institution does not account for all then it needs to be changed so that everyone is welcome at the table. When people send in these kinds of statements I wonder what they are thinking.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:27pm
  128. All children need are 2 people who are in a stable relationship that will show them love and support, the gender of the 2 does not matter makes no difference.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:28pm
  129. And what kind of child-centered institution is supported by polygamy?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:29pm
  130. If marriage is a ‘child-centered institution’ then every married couple should be required by law to have kids.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:30pm
  131. Not really

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:31pm
  132. They are as messed up about these social issues as they were about allowing African Americans to hold their so called priesthood.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:32pm
  133. “principally” mean there are OBVIOUSLY exceptions. duh

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:32pm
  134. I wish these right wing bigots would stop confusing “holy matrimony” which is defined by the specific church it is being carried out in, with marriage. Marriage is a financial and social contract between two consenting adults and the goverment. That’s it. Children and reproduction have nothing to do with it.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:33pm
  135. That is so ridiculous.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:33pm
  136. My wife and I don’t plan on having kids. What conservatives fail to understand is that, like all things, marriage is subjective to all peoples interpretations.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:36pm
  137. BREAKING NEEEEEEWS!!!….Utah DEFENDS THE RIGHT TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS INSIDE THE SECRET ROOM IN THE Mormon Church ..Mormon.org..THE Mormon Messages ARE TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS..OHHHH THOOOOOSE Mormon’S GRIND MY GEARS SOMETIMES!!…and The Tea Party is okay with that and so is the Republican Party….and Sarah Palin for President 2016!..oh god i hope she runs..it’ll be fun to watch the fool make a fool out of herself once again…ahhhhh PRICELESS…good day people..and know that they are on the wrong and theyre subconsciousness knows too and will eventually let them know too and thus makes them a conflicted people,feel bad for them,for the real mind knows better..have a nice day :)

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:38pm
  138. Well, that argument will flop at the gate.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:38pm
  139. How about we get some gay couples to adopt kids abandoned by straight couples. That should make a point.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:38pm
  140. they are all wasting their time, and their state’s money on this. this is being supported, probably, by taxpayer money. what a shame!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:38pm
  141. But then why do we allow infertile people to marry? Or women who have already gone through menopause? Some opposite-sex couples do not or can’t have children, yet they are afforded the right to marry.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:38pm
  142. Except for half….because those marriages end in divorce. Good odds.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:39pm
  143. Same old tired arguments, different day.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:43pm
  144. FUCK the state of Utah that’s all !!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:45pm
  145. Marriage is a legal contract that allows privileges during marriage and divides property in divorce or secures property in death. Children are commodities in this contract.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:46pm
  146. Be definition no marriage should be considered valid unless there are children involved

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:48pm
  147. Then by extension are they trying to invalidate childless marriages between heterosexuals? Do marriages become invalid upon menopause? Should marriages without “replacement value ie +2.5 children ” be invalidated. These people are idiots and bigots.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:48pm
  148. I truly don’t understand this idea… If every child should have a parent, than Utah should have no adoptable children and no foster care. And anyone elderly should not be married if it’s a “child centered union.” No one who’s infertile or sterile should be married either by that way of thinking… So wrong

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:49pm
  149. Then as soon as you’re an empty nester, the State of Utah should force you to divorce. Got it, bagguers and bigots.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:50pm
  150. Thanks Levi Tooker for sharing the following: “Nevertheless, the State maintains that same-sex couples are distinct from opposite-sex couples because they are not able to naturally reproduce with each other. The State points to Supreme Court cases that have linked the importance of marriage to its relationship to procreation… The court does not find the State’s argument compelling because, however persuasive the ability to procreate might be in the context of a particular religious perspective, it is not a defining characteristic of conjugal relationships from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State’s position demeans the dignity not just of same-sex couples, but of the many opposite-sex couples who are unable to reproduce or who choose not to have children. Under the State’s reasoning, a post-menopausal woman or infertile man does not have a fundamental right to marry because she or he does not have the capacity to procreate. This proposition is irreconcilable with the right to liberty that the Constitution guarantees to all citizens.” —Judge Shelby, federal court decision in Kitchen v. Herbert, page 26 http://fr.scribd.com/doc/192796334/Federal-Court-Decision-in-Kitchen-v-Herbert

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:51pm
  151. This is so wrong on so many levels I can’t begin to comment

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:52pm
  152. these people are incredibly stupid. there is no way they will win this case with a flimsy ass argument like that.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:53pm
  153. If that were true, there would be far less divorce!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:57pm
  154. Thanks Utah! If that’s the argument you’ve picked, you’ve already lost the court case. Much appreciated.

    1) Gay people raise children, too.
    2) Single people raise children.
    3) Not all married people have children
    4) Parents sometimes get divorced
    5) People who can’t have children get married all the time

    So, your reasoning for banning equal rights does zero to further your alleged goal of promoting some ideal hetero family, and ignores all sorts of worse threats to your ideal.

    Short version: what you are doing comes down to bigotry, hatred, and fear. You can lie to yourself that it is something else, but you can’t lie to anyone who pokes at your story with logic and reason.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:57pm
  155. Old people with too much time to waste

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:59pm
  156. Str8 ppl are still scared that homosexuals are going to ruin their perfect marriage. Well sweeties, over half the states of the USA don’t allow same sex marriages, BUT oddly enough here in Ohio there were 28 divorce fillings in the newspaper on Monday, alone. So its not us ruining your marriage or screwing up children, its all in your heads. You want to keep the sanctity then BAN DIVORCE, duh.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 4:59pm
  157. mormon assholes

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:01pm
  158. Patrizzia Simpson get your people! Lol jk

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:02pm
  159. and lots of wives for each dude…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:06pm
  160. adoption p.s. artificial insemination, p.s. surrogacy you mormon idiots.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:09pm
  161. where do all of these straight people think 99% of gay people come from?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:09pm
  162. Once upon a time interracial marriage was illegal too…your time is over you fucking bigot cunts

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:14pm
  163. @gay folkdont have childern adoption? Better a home with two people who love kids procect kids feed and dress them teach them to love not hate
    Nhan no home at all look at the facts a lot of times gays adopt speical needs and childern that outhers woint adopt, good lord people pull your heads from the sand =marrage does not efect your marrage at all, live your life with hate and fear? Not my choice

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:14pm
  164. Then NO fucking once the babies are made…this must be enforced by the churches if they are serious about this…there should be task forces peeking into every bedroom window in Utah…video surveillance as well…hell…bring back the chastity belt and lock that shit down so NO ONE fucks if a baby is not being made.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:15pm
  165. My dad once told me I was the best mistake he ever made……hence mistake. Ill always be a mistake. Once my partner and I have a child I will tell him or her that we wanted you so much we did what ever possible so we could love you this much. In the the end its still about love. Utah can just disappear

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:20pm
  166. No. It’s not. Sit down and shut up asshats.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:21pm
  167. Of course they do. There’re brainwashed with Mormonism.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:30pm
  168. ever notice how UGLY bigots are? just pondering…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:31pm
  169. Yeah, those extra laws protecting people and property are just filler.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:32pm
  170. “Marriage means a father and a mother for every child” so what about the straight couple who don’t want children?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:32pm
  171. Another desperate but losing argument from the bigots.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:33pm
  172. BULLSHIT

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:33pm
  173. so then when you are done reproducing you are no longer married yes? so if this is the case why dont they make laws a lil tougher on those who are to breed? like the one in red centered in this picture are they allowed to reproduce? they shouldnt i mean its not like nayones that hard up.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:36pm
  174. and until you are able to reproduce then you cannot get married wow what a screwed up law and state!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:36pm
  175. Wow! Is all I have to say about that!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:36pm
  176. POf course they would .remember where all or most of the religious cults child brides come from.they would rather pedifiles and people who believe in passing the young girls around .they dont want people to be happy and to love each other I would rather my child adopted in a loving gay or lesbian home then to be beaten and molested by someone who is suppose to be the pillar of the community and is actually a pedifile.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:42pm
  177. HEY BIGOTS OF UTAH (AND EVERYWHERE)…. IF I WAS A CHILD AND HAD A MOTHER AND FATHER LIKE YOU, I WOULD SEEK EMANCIPATION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE :) Also, I had a father, and he died. Does that mean that the family I had left wasn’t good enough? Fuck off………..every child deserves at least one parent who gives a damn about them. If they have TWO parents who give a damn, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity, then they are really lucky!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:44pm
  178. If it is child-centered, how do you explain married couples who chose not to have children. Your reasoning is fallow. You will resort to any excuse to deny equal rights and civil rights to a group of people you simply disdain.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:45pm
  179. Look at all these ugly pigs

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:47pm
  180. All in vitro children should be killed!!! It is abomination!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:48pm
  181. Mormons are the losers of the Christian right!! What worse comment can I make??? Lololololo!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:49pm
  182. So then no women after their child bearing years can get married. Tough shit young widows. You’ll just have to be a spinster!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:50pm
  183. What a lame and vacuous argument. If that’s the best reason they can muster then they’re going to lose! Which they should anyway! Their complete bigotry and idiocy is showing!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:50pm
  184. If that’s truen, then only should they annul childless marriages (infertile and non-breeding couples, regardless of age), they should also impose marriages on single women who have children. Not that their state has a lot of those OWAIT

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:51pm
  185. Oh and divorce when there are children should be outlawed.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:51pm
  186. cant wait to see what will happen, but we will prevail! all of you must stand for your lgbt rights!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:52pm
  187. That’s ignorance at its best my father was a big Casanova and he was marry for 23 years to my mother yet I grew up fine. Why because my mother did both roles you don’t need 2 parents or a mother or a father you just need good parent(s)

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 5:56pm
  188. Utah wins again at being the worst state in the union.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:00pm
  189. They are retards.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:03pm
  190. Idiots. They should all adopt an unwanted child then.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:04pm
  191. Why complain? The more stupid their arguments are, the more likely a court will side against them!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:07pm
  192. That’s fucking retarded…then again…it is Utah.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:08pm
  193. Freaking bigoted morons.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:17pm
  194. So many people have lost their minds!!! Why do you get to vote on my rights !! They’re called RIGHTS for a reason!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:19pm
  195. long con kettling….these people are conditioned to think what they think the same as most people in the LGBT movement are conditioned to think what they think. Both sides feel justified. Let the Flerp Derp commence.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:20pm
  196. And anyone who had gotten married that’s been unable to produce a child within three years automatically has their marriage annulled! Oh, no? Then I guess you’re full of bs then! Too bad, Utah. Your opinion doesn’t hold up.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:23pm
  197. This is an old chestnut that has not past muster with the Supreme court, and it will not past muster in the lesser court. How much more money do the Conservatives have to spend to find out they have lost?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:30pm
  198. Really? I guess that no-one who can’t procreate shouldn’t get married, then. Right? Stupid.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:33pm
  199. ‘Redefining marriage in “genderless” terms likely would result in lower reproductive rates and fewer children being raised in the ideal environment provided by biological, opposite-sex parents, the state said’

    Is that crazy talk supposed to be from the Bible? The one that says to lead a perfect life, do your best to emulate Jesus?

    Jesus Christ wasn’t raised by his biological, opposite-sex parents, and he turned out all right.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:34pm
  200. So how about married couple’s who don’t have children? The one’s who don’t want any? Also isn’t there suppose to be a separation of church and state? Religion Should not be a reason to circumvent someone’s rights imo

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:35pm
  201. And can the state of Utah back up that argument by showing the state or federal law which defines marriage by procreation? No? Then why file an argument like that?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:39pm
  202. By that logic, they should ban divorce. No?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:40pm
  203. When religion trys to make our laws our laws should say that they are NOT tax exempt.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:43pm
  204. Marriage means a mother and father for every child? What about people who get married in their 50′s and 60′s? Not a lot of kids coming out of that marriage. Want traditional marriage? Then make your daughters part of a business deal and start marrying your cousins.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:43pm
  205. Bla, bla, bla. What a proven winning strategy.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:51pm
  206. Wow wow wow hold on where in the hell does it say all married people MUST have children?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:52pm
  207. Oh, so then they’re also going to ban marriages between the elderly and the infertile? If not, then they need to stop pretending it’s about children. How many times do we have to go over this??

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:53pm
  208. Yeah thats what they are making it out to be marriage is between breeders cause….just like dogs and beast marriage is a title for those who breed so they can pop out as many babies as they can before they die…..a whole bunch of whackadoodles and crazy bible humpers.. . MARRIAGE is not something just for str8 sex addicts.. marriage is a piece of paper to proove 2 loving consensual adults have tied the knot of love n life. And to pay taxes together.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:54pm
  209. LOL – Marriage was initially to protect the husband’s property from others

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:55pm
  210. Marriages have NOTHING to do with any bible….humans have married for tens of thousands of years way before written records and thousands and thousands of years way the bible.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 6:57pm
  211. then they should ban straight people who are past child-bearing years, or anyone who is infertile from marrying.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:17pm
  212. And that’s why we have so many being raised by just one parent… morons. I mean Mormons!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:19pm
  213. Wow were going to need more cats for all the crazy old ladys in town !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Red alert crazy cat people

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:23pm
  214. What do children and gay marriage have anything to do with each other? NOTHING.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:28pm
  215. Ugly rabble

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:37pm
  216. Stupid people make me laugh. Forced divorce for the barren.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:44pm
  217. And they are still using arguments that have no basis in fact. For one, children are being raised by same sex couples, they are healthy and happy…and secondly…this world DOES NOT NEED more procreation by our species right now…as long as there are children who do not have loving parents…there will be a need for parents of any gender and lifestyle to take care of them. If you think children wold be better off orphans than in the arms of loving parents…you are actually anti-child.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:51pm
  218. UTAH, We have a problem….

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:52pm
  219. How much more of these tired old excuses and explanations do we have to put up with?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:53pm
  220. Stupid bullshit.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:57pm
  221. If you were child centered you’d recognize that kids highly prefer gay parents to ambivalent foster care but you aren’t. You couldn’t care less about anyone but yourselves.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 7:58pm
  222. Marriage is a legal document providing financial incentives, kids or not.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:01pm
  223. What a pile of horse poo. Marriage is not a child centered institution and even if it was that would need to change because we have a huge overpopulation problem going on all over the world. Marriage is about two people in love who want to make a commitment with each other. Having a child is one choice they can make but not a necessity or requirement.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:08pm
  224. Ya bc every child has both a mother and father in heterosexual relationship right ??? Great logic keep going with that … dumbasses. My gma is mormon. Doesnt believe in gays. Best woman i know great heart, but shes been married 4 times though.. so dont talk to me about homosexuals ruining the sanctity of marriage

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:14pm
  225. Simple minded people, no capacity to think, analyse and accept change.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:16pm
  226. What about all the moms that give up their child or all the dad’s that leave their marriage and make more children with their 2nd or 3rd wife. Next time Utah think about what Ur saying and then come up with a better slogan. Also u won’t love or want Ur gay child to be happy or married or be treated the same way u r? U make no sense Utah.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:25pm
  227. Of course Utah is based on having children. They have at least 60 kids per multi-wife family. Give me a break.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:27pm
  228. OK, without reading all the comments someone please tell me how on earth me (66 years old) and my husband (54 years old) who have already raised two (now grown and gone) children could possibility interfere with straight people getting married (or not) and having children. Is this the argument that Utah paid $300,000 to offer the court? Heck, I’d have charged half of that and come up with a better argument than that!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:35pm
  229. not having a mother and father leads to emotional damage?

    way to insult single parents

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:38pm
  230. Then explain the phenomenon of single mothers and deadbeat dads. Can’t have it both ways, Utah. Besides, gay and lesbian couples often do have kids and warrant the protection of Family Law.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:39pm
  231. Oh get over t Utah!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:49pm
  232. Utah can allow mormons to marry 5 different women or men but yet they wanna bitch at homos cause they wanna marry one person grow up and get the fuck over it

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:50pm
  233. So any straight marriage without children is invalid then? I guess it should be illegal for infertile people to get married as well. Morons.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:54pm
  234. NOO FIGHT BACK FIGHT BACK!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:55pm
  235. Only in a Mormon’s mind. Marriage is a union of two people from different families. Unless you’re going old school where marriage is multiple wives, or marrying multiple sisters, or marrying mother and daughter/s to the same man. So, which is it, Mormonland?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:56pm
  236. Those people are UDs – Utah Douches ..

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 8:58pm
  237. Get over people!!!!!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:00pm
  238. No, no it is not. Sorry to correct your assumption.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:01pm
  239. God, please save me from those people who worship you.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:06pm
  240. What about those children who have “mothers” and “fathers” and yet because “mommy” and “daddy” use and/or sell drugs, beat each other up, beat the kids up, these “privileged” children grow up emotionally and physically scarred.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:16pm
  241. yep i can’t stand watch the news or listen to people rant here. its all about not being able to pump out the babies like the church says to.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:16pm
  242. It’s so ridiculous that people believe marriage and parenthood has to be about opposite genders.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:20pm
  243. Are you kidding me??? Utah, is ok with polygamy but they want to ban gay marriage, really people.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:27pm
  244. So it’s not about love. Sad for them

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:32pm
  245. So much for Christian Love in Utah…can anyone actually show me where Jesus Christ condems homosexuality??? I can’t find it..and if you are going to live by what the Bible says, then I hope the women of Utah OBEY the men, as it says in the Old Testament…funny how we pick and chose what we want…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:33pm
  246. Why is that? A lot of married couples do not have kids , so whats the big deal?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:38pm
  247. Exactly! Which is why same-sex parents of children must be allowed to get married.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:41pm
  248. “child centered…” so instead of spending all that TAX MONEY to fight marriage equality spend it to feed school children rather than throw away their lunches they can’t pay for because the accounts are in arrearage.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:41pm
  249. one day

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:47pm
  250. …fuck you, I don’t want any kids if I ever manage to get married! -_- And even if I changed my mind, I’d rather adopt, thank you very much!

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:49pm
  251. why is everything pink and purple?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 9:52pm
  252. State of Hate……

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:01pm
  253. uhh actually it doesnt…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:11pm
  254. And why can’t a same sex couple do that Utah?

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:14pm
  255. Lies people say marriage is between a man in a wife noooooooooooooooooo in some cultures it’s between a man and wifessssssssssssssss not one wife several. what the hell are this people talking about? No no no no marriage is about love not this religious trash, love conquers all not religion

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:15pm
  256. marriage is an institution of protecting property rights.read its history and understand the language. To have and to hold is a property right.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:37pm
  257. Any religion reason for this ought to be thrown out. This is a legal issue, not a biblical issue. Just because some people get married in a church doesn’t mean the church has to let everyone do it there. I’d never get married in a church because it has nothing to do with God when I file paperwork with a local office. “God” doesn’t have an application process for love.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:39pm
  258. tell that to all the infertile / old / do not want to have kids straight couples marriage is about hearts not parts.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:40pm
  259. Also we can get a surrogate or adopt just like any other infertile couple can so . Your drop onion arguments are invalid and we have a little thing called see ration of church and state

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:42pm
  260. great remove all children from divorced people

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 10:57pm
  261. I’m assuming they’ve never heard of adoption for a same sex married couple? Pathetic people, very pathetic. It’s kind of like saying two of the same sex best friends cant share their soda with one another. It’s stupid.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:04pm
  262. I guess that don’t know that staying in a marriage for the child never works out well for anybody.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:10pm
  263. Marriage is not for children its for the couple and gay people have children sooooooooooo

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:16pm
  264. People wake up it’s 2014, grow up…

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:21pm
  265. As long as you love someone and love your children and raise them to be good people, I am all for it… Stop being so ignorant people….

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:25pm
  266. Bull-fucking-shit! So, by that logic heterosexual couples who are unable or unwilling to have children of their own for whatever reason—whether because of infertility, age, or personal preference—should not be able to marry either, right? Right? Give me a fucking break already! These idiots have no valid arguments anymore, so they’ll just say the first thing that comes to mind. God, I hate people.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:29pm
  267. They are so wrong…….ignorance is not bliss.

    Posted on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 at 11:54pm
  268. Awww look at the little homophobes trying to look smart! Nice try, but your argument is thinner than the paper it’s wasted on.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:12am
  269. The Bible is a comic book……ignore it and use common sense!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:12am
  270. Holy cow, the brief is 101 pages long!!! I don’t know the rules in the 10th Circuit, but other Circuits have length limits for briefs. Looking at the index of the brief it’s pretty obvious that they’ve recycled arguments that have been dismissed by all the other courts, only they must have padded them to make it this long! That’s likely to piss off the Court. It’s not like a term paper and the longest brief doesn’t necessarily win. The Court has a lot to do so they like briefs that are short and sweet. I’m guessing we’ll see a decision in late March or April.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:20am
  271. Sad.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:29am
  272. ignorance

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:30am
  273. What the fuck?? What kind of idiocy is that? Marriage happens because two people are attracted to each other and want to stay together for the rest of their lives. It has nothing to do with kids (expressly, that is).

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:32am
  274. its utah what do you expect be a while before they change

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:33am
  275. these shameful, hateful bigots ignore the fact that marriage is a CIVIL contract, period. Want a wedding? go to a chruch…..

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:43am
  276. Marriage has nothing to do with children. It has to do with people who love each other. Its not about religion or children. Its bailout my husband and I staying committed to each other. When will people understand this!? Marriage equality for all.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 12:48am
  277. Wtf

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:00am
  278. Does this mean that you are not legally married in Utah until AFTER you have children? Where exactly is that in the statute?

    I assume that they are not allowed to take advantage of Marriage status in tax and benefits forms until after the woman has given birth to a child as well?

    If a lesbian couple has one partner who gets pregnant via artificial insemination, does she automatically become married?

    The real issue is that Utah is trying to use this argument to deprive gay partners of life (medical care), liberty (visit in hospital, safety in workplace and public places), and property (taxes, benefits, survivor benefits, …) without due process of law.

    Like every other state, Utah had to accept the ENTIRE constitution, INCLUDING the Bill of Rights and the 14th amendment.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:00am
  279. If marriage is a child-centered institution, then marriage would end when infertility ensued, and sterile/infertile people wouldn’t be allowed to marry.
    Also, same-sex couples help to solve the orphan chrisis, by adopting &raising children!
    #ArgumentInvalid

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:21am
  280. Debbie Lawrence I’ve always thought the same. My sister is gay. I’ve always felt her love will always be stronger than mine (in relationships) bc she had so much to fight for. Fighting for something, in my opinion, makes it stronger. Like they say…most gay couples didn’t have kids on accident…most had to fight like hell to be a parent….n what tolerant n understanding patents they will certainly be!!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:24am
  281. Look at the dyke with the sign

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:45am
  282. hahahaha funny. the infertile marry. the asexual marry.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:45am
  283. Marriage means love between 2 human beings, it’s about love not gender, race or orientation.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:45am
  284. Stupid. That means if you don’t plan on having kids, your marriage should be banned as well. Idiots.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:46am
  285. Bull fricking crap!!! A 60 yr old woman who marries a 56 year old man is not doing so in the mind of having children. All these examples they use are getting old.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:46am
  286. Utah is full of crap and very backwards!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:47am
  287. This is why we can’t have nice things

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:47am
  288. uh no it isn’t a child centered crap thing. I have married for love 4 times and once because I was pregnant. so 1 out of 5 was a crappy child centered thing.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:47am
  289. Except it really, really isn’t.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:47am
  290. Bigots never look very happy.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:47am
  291. Marriage used to be illegal for blacks who were heterosexual. Today, we are the new target.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:47am
  292. People are so biggoted

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:48am
  293. Assholes!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:48am
  294. Apparently they haven’t done the research. Sociological studies say that a child benefits from having two parents yet the gender of the parents do not matter.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:48am
  295. Idiots

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:48am
  296. Their are children that grew up around straight people that are gay those people are idiots

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:48am
  297. Gay people have kids too, if that’s your reasoning.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:49am
  298. 1) does their rhetoric seem like something archaic to anyone else?

    2) Does the legal separation of church and state mean ANYTHING in a LEGAL,(not religious) argument?

    3) So if opposite sexed people don’t/can’t have kids, they shouldn’t be able to marry?

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:50am
  299. Sigh…. this stuff is getting so old. One silly argument after another.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:50am
  300. That statement makes no sense, but then again, neither does Utah.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:50am
  301. They will anwser to god for their hate smh

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:50am
  302. Hell no! Barren people get married, so do people who just don’t want kids! Plus you can reproduce without being married!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:50am
  303. Been married 25+ years, don’t have kids. Don’t invalidate my marriage because you’re ignorant!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:52am
  304. They all look like they’ll be dead in about 5 years anyway. If not from old age then certainly from brain damage.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:52am
  305. What a pile of bullshit! I’m so glad and thankful to be a Canadian!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:52am
  306. But I bet they’ll still have a child with their own cousin! Yep makes total sense hick town!

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:53am
  307. Utah, the MORON STATE.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:53am
  308. Look at those fucking pigs

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:53am
  309. The ignorance these people demonstrate remind me that selective thinning of the human race would be useful as it pertains to THEM right now.

    Posted on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 at 1:54am