Recently, Jim Garlow, pastor of the Skyline Church, an evangelical Christian megachurch located in La Mesa, Calif., sat down with theologian and author Wayne Grudem for an hour-long discussion on “Biblical Issues for This Election” that was based on a document (pdf) Grudem put together comparing the positions of the Democratic and Republican parties.
During the wide-ranging discussion, the two spent a good deal of time on the topic of marriage equality which, not surprisingly, they both vociferously oppose, as Garlow explained that “sexual orientation” doesn’t really exist and is just a modern phenomenon cooked up in the last few years.
As such, nobody is really born gay, and though some may have a “pernicious tendency towards same-sex attraction,” that doesn’t mean they have to act on it, just as “every health heterosexual male … has a pernicious tendency towards polygamy” but doesn’t act on that or seek legal endorsement and approval for it:
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ugh, sickening :(
Oh, good! So Sodom and Gomorrah were *not* our fault after all!!! :-{P}
If no one is born gay, than no one is born straight either.
WHAT A ASS HOLE GET YOU HEAD OUT OF YOUR BUTT JERK
Of course they say shit like this. Modern religion is big business and this brings headlines and $$.
Sexual orientation isn’t a construct, but sexuality IS. Two different things. And no, studies show a significant genetic component in sexual orientation. Get it right!
wow lo haha ya thats why back way before technology started ppl were gay i dont think that was modern.
Unfortunately stupidity is not a modern construct either . . .
Idiot! He better read some books and then open his stupid mind to world! I am gay! I am born this way, never been able to be with a man! So is this modern conduct born with me Mr stupid pastor?
You’ve got your head so far up your butt, you can’t even see the real world. Prick.
This tired old bullshit is like a vampire…it just won’t die. The only choice we have in being gay is whether we are accepting, proud,healthy and comfortable with who and what we are, or a bitter,hateful self loathing hot mess…and isn’t this true with anyone?
Closed minded dingbats :(.
Who cares what the bible says, it’s a fictional book full of fictional characters.
It doesnt matter what people like to believe or not belive! I know in my heart that I was born gay! This was not a choice! Did you choose to be straight?
If homosexuality is a “modern construct”, then why are there passages in the bible with homosexuals in them? Surely a pastor knows this, and is therefore just using his own personal beliefs to further marginalize the gay population.
its not a modern construct at all. Its been going down for thousands of years and even animals display that same behavior.
No one is born bigoted. Bigotry is a societal construct, resulting from poor parenting, insufficient education, lack of empathy, and deliberate, willful ignorance.
Religion gives some people license to lie.
i am opposed to the word orientation honestly. you get a new job you go through orientation to be taught to do the job. i wasnt taught to be gay i was born gay i had the same sex attraction at 5 and if God is a man of his word, then he doesnt suffer the little children!
To some degree he’s right. We didn’t have a name for sexual orientation until quite recently. Just like we didn’t have a word for radiation, or attention deficit disorder, or a host of other things, before around a hundred years ago. Dosnt mean these things didn’t exist, it just means we didn’t know much about them.
Its not the life we were born with, its the life that we chose by our own decision:-))
Oh whatever. If it weren’t for the fact that we have to keep up with those we need to be vigilant against, I’d say we shouldn’t even give them the attention they so richly DON’T deserve.
I always love how straight people know for sure that homosexuality is “chosen” very strange!
@ troy i agree except the rake in the money and dont pay taxes, and @ jokie read the bible carefully it says sodom and gommorah were destroyed because of spiritual wickedness not gays
Christianity is a new construct in the greater scheme of human existence
Sexuality as an IDENTITY period (gay & heterosexual) are *MODERN* ccostructs. Sexual attraction & behavior is NOT modern-look to the animal world for that evidencce. Maybe this ‘Pastor’ should READ a few books
NOBODY is born HOMOPHOBIC !! NOBODY IS BORN CHRISTIAN !!
These prejudices are instilled by bigoted parents !!
He is speaking strictly from a “biblical perspective”, not a sociological one. And from that position, you can’t debate him. Well, you could, but neither of you would convince the other.
Isn’t there a way to rid ourselves of these self proclaimed prophets who use religion and the Bible against other tax paying citizens? I just can’t believe that someone can’t come up with a way to start silencing them and the harm that the do. We know that they make a mockery out of Christianity. We also know that these megachurches are in it for the money. We have to find a way to rid ourselves of these horrible and dangerous people!!!!
Preacher man, Your ignorance is offensive and your homophobia makes you ugly.
truthfully who the fuck cares about what this guys says. hes a whack job and no one really needs to listen. he has no more connection to God than the rest of us and quite frankly, I like my connection than his.
If thats true then why did Jesus Christ say gays were born that way. He said it Matthew 19:11&12.
If sexual orientation is a modern construct, then how does the Bible have an opinion on it?
Yo Pastor… No one is listening to you, go back to seminary for a few years and report back.
Idiot.
This man is a preacher. Not a qualified psychologist who has created case studies with results that he can analyze and come to this conclusion. It’s only his personal feelings on the subject. His feelings are based on a poor biased literal interpretation of the bible. Let these kinds people have their religion of hate and discrimination. I choose to follow a Jesus who was inclusive of all people. Period.
Mythology and politics don’t mix.
I know why things like this bother me,its because it is a personal attack on me.What I dont understand is how it DOESNT bother everyone.Not just this guy but the dozens of vile things these church leaders are lying to their flocks about,when it comes to the gay community.I know the hetrosexual community dont all have a dog in this race but I am sure if I was old enough to be in the churches back in the day when the leaders where using a lot of the same horrable things to keep the black people from being considered equal.Or when they used the bible to explain that God didnt want races to mix,I really hope I would have been strong enough to stand up and say they where wrong then….And they ARE wrong NOW.People say you cant compare discrimination based race to it based on sexuality because people cant help what color they are born…I say EXACTLY….You cant, but that didnt stop people from discriminating against these people not too long ago.NOW most people see how ridiculess it is to degrade someone for their color,but not long ago the same sort of people that degrade us using the bible also used the same bible to explain why it was ok to have slaves and to not allow people of different races from getting married.I feel in my heart not long from now our grandchildren wont understand what the big deal is in who people love.
Holy shit-did any conservative take a history class?
Yeah, history tells us nothing about the human race…. I always find it interesting that people think that history started when they were born..
Another stupid moron.
Don’t worry, he’ll come back as a mule. Just as stubborn as he is now.
People are born gay…
Yet another White supremacist homophobe thumping his King James Version – I’m so thankful that there are self-righteous dumbasses out there to set us all straight!
DEFINING sexual orientation is a modern construct
Homosexual has been a scientific classifacation of human beings before the church even existed. What?!?! Trust ancient science? YES, in this modern world we often do, because it work. geometry is ancient, a large part of mathematics is ancient. Yes yes, scientific classifacation of humanity.
complete and total moron. i’m not gay myself and i personally think that either you’re either born gay or born straight. That isn’t a choice like some people believe. i don’t know where he gets the idea that sexual orientation doesn’t exist. as long as humans have walked the earth and learned what they liked there has been some semblence of sexual orientation. if that didn’t exist how would we know what we liked better. this guy is a nutjob and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
So is he saying that being gay is a choice? If so, he might be the dumbest person in the universe then. I couldn’t imagine CHOOSING to be gay.
So according to this “pastor” the Romans and Greeks never existed, OR we are the Romans/Greeks? What an imagination some people (don’t) have.
No one is a born biggot either. I refuse to engage idiots who think their reality has to be mine. I know I am loved. I know I am whole and need no one to tell me otherwise.
I went to college with Jim Garlow back in the 70s!! Wow! What a reality check, yet not really unexpected.
There’s nothing wrong with choice. Jesus would know me by the word Saris
I wonder how many times hes fucked the choir boy
So ignorant. I’m really over this stupid sh*t.
Dork.
Not worth worrying about.
Ancient greeks and romans that is all.
Is he a gay man in order to say that? :)))))))))
Nobody tells me to be gay, I happened to be gay because since I’m born that way. That’s how it is. It’s impossible that Gays makes me like I’m possession by Evil. Nope, I don’t see nothing!. That’s what some traditional Religious thinks. I just fall in love with MAN because it’s how I feel. It’s just LOVE IS LOVE feeling that’s it!.
What a douchebag
Idiot…plain and simple! I have lost all tolerance for these moronic straight people telling me that I’m “not right” in some way! Here is a thought…kiss my gay ass you freak!
I have always hated this choice argument. I’d like to think it would cease to be an argument if we stopped engaging it. The audacity here is the heterosexist presumption that if I HAD a choice, I would be heterosexual, because it’s somehow better. Well, fuck that. Guess what preacher man? How about, I’m gay cuz this is America, and if I want to pursue mate marry and die with someone of the same gender, I GET TO. Period. If you don’t like it, you can get bent.
HE IS WRONG!!!!!
I NEVER CHOSE TO BE ME MYSELF AND I ,BUT WHO I AM MAKES ME AS A WHOLE
AND HE KNOWS THIS BECAUSE ?… he s been through it, i guess
bigot hater douchebag another christian extremest. Very anti American
Cool, I’ll just tell him he shouldn’t act on his desire to get at his wife’s booty.
REALLY?? I guess he has 1st time experience
…What? Pretty sure I’ve been gay since birth… I’ve never liked the opposite sex in that manner xD Don’t know who he’s trying to fool…
Someone doesn’t know their history very well…
You sir are the very reason why some should be swallowed
Sexual orientation is definitely a construct, but i wouldn’t necessarily consider it to be modern. I chose to construct an orientation called chrisism, and it is uniquely formulated just for me. I highly recommend losing social constructs because we can never live up to them. They also make us feel less than and then, we over compensate. Neither side of the argument is correct, sorry kids.
What an idiot…tired of listening to fools who know nothing. Considering the constant battering from people like you sir, If most gay people had a choice, do u think they would choose to be gay?
we aren’t all born str8 either so it looks like his words are pointless!
who would ever “choose” a lifestyle that gets them beaten, raped, made fun of and/or murdered?
I used to think people weren’t born stupid but …
IGNORAMUS!!!
Didn’t science prove the Gay gene existed or is it still a hypothesis? That would shut him up!
silly twit
This pastor needs therapy really bad. Can someone help him before ?he digs is own grave and can’t get out of it.
He got his qualifications on the back of a cereal box.
Who cares if gay people are born gay or choose gay. Either way it’s OK. This argument is so fucking stale. Do we condemn religious people who choose their religion? No. So, why belittle LGBT people if it was a choice. If it is a choice, I think it’s an awesome choice.
One Word. Clueless!
This side is a genius!
No one is born perfect, just innocent!!!!
He must be gay and trying to hide it!!!
AND YOU’RE AN IDIOT WITH AN AUDIENCE!